General F/A-XX thread

[milosh]

SAC is close to start production of J-35, they also fly J-50, while Boeing closest to stealth fighter was with X-32 which was demonstrator, but today Boeing have problems with something like T-7 and you compare Boeing to SAC?

While China did fly two tailless stealth fighter designs America still didn't decide what NGAD would look like.

This is why what I wrote about thread is true, America need to act fast and I think merging NGAD with F/A-XX will be most logical in fact making F/A-XX for USN and USAF.

Two engine design similar to J-50 for example, so some derivate of F110-132 with flat nozzle while GE is working on ACE engine in that size.

[Corsair1963]

SAC is close to start production of J-35, they also fly J-50, while Boeing closest to stealth fighter was with X-32 which was demonstrator, but today Boeing have problems with something like T-7 and you compare Boeing to SAC?

While China did fly two tailless stealth fighter designs America still didn't decide what NGAD would look like.

This is why what I wrote about thread is true, America need to act fast and I think merging NGAD with F/A-XX will be most logical in fact making F/A-XX for USN and USAF.

Two engine design similar to J-50 for example, so some derivate of F110-132 with flat nozzle while GE is working on ACE engine in that size.

Honestly, both US 6th Generation Fighter Programs have been very secretive. So, we have no real idea how mature and at what stage of development either are in. The fact that neither the USAF nor USN are too excited about the JH-XX and J-50 speaks volumes in my book.

In short what do they know that we don't?

[Corsair1963]

The US Navy goal was always to replace the Legacy Hornet with the F-35C and have the F-35C's operate alongside with the Super Hornets.
So the F-35C was never intended to replace the Super Hornet. But and in the meanwhile, it seems that some Super Hornets will indeed end up being replaced by F-35C's, which is IMO is very telling (of how 5th gen is far superior to 4th gen).

Like I said in another F/A-XX thread, I think/believe the F/A-XX will eventually be awarded to Boeing which is probably another reason why you won't probably see F-35C's fully replacing the Super Hornets but instead many of the Super Hornets will be replaced by the F/A-XX.

It all depends on the progress of the F/A-XX. Yet, hard to see it entering service until 2040, and even then production will ramp up very slowly.
In the meantime, the USN will just continue to buy F-35Cs and replace older Super Hornets.

[Corsair1963]

US Air Force and US Navy both plan to order NGAD and F/A-XX by 2030, where is this 2040 coming from?

Really? They haven't even selected a winner and it's 2025. Honestly, 2040 is optimistic considering the history of such programs. We still have a lot to learn about the F-35 let alone the next generation past it. Hell, at this stage Block 4 upgrades for the F-35 are leap enough.

[milosh]

Honestly, both US 6th Generation Fighter Programs have been very secretive. So, we have no real idea how mature and at what stage of development either are in. The fact that neither the USAF nor USN are too excited about the JH-XX and J-50 speaks volumes in my book.

In short what do they know that we don't?

We know much about ngad. Usaf still didn't decide what ngad would be at all!

First they wanted big aircraft and now they are talking about small (f35 size) aircraft. So they still don't know what they want.

[ricnunes]

SAC is close to start production of J-35, they also fly J-50, while Boeing closest to stealth fighter was with X-32 which was demonstrator, but today Boeing have problems with something like T-7 and you compare Boeing to SAC?

Maybe or likely SAC is close to start production of J-35 but the fact is that such production hasn't started yet and only prototypes of this aircraft exist. We don't know what the "J-50" really is and it may even be a drone much like the MQ-28 Ghost Bat which surprise, surprise: is developed by Boeing!

So yes, I compare Boeing to SAC and currently and as we speak they are more or less at the same level when it comes to manned fighter aircraft. I grant you that once SAC starts building the J-35 that it might surpass Boeing in terms of manned fighter aircraft but and then again, this still did NOT happen.

While China did fly two tailless stealth fighter designs America still didn't decide what NGAD would look like.

No, they are not two tailless stealth fighter designs. Again, they are two demonstrator aircraft or at best early prototypes, where the "J-36" IMO clearly represents a potential regional bomber/attack aircraft while the "J-50" we don't know what it is and again it may even be a drone.

Anyway, there's even a chance that those two demonstrator aircraft/early prototypes may not end up being manufactured but here I digress.

I even suspect that the "showing off" those two demonstrator aircraft/early prototypes may have been a move by China in order to "force" the USA to show its NGAD efforts/prototypes but here and again, I digress...

[Corsair1963]

Honestly, both US 6th Generation Fighter Programs have been very secretive. So, we have no real idea how mature and at what stage of development either are in. The fact that neither the USAF nor USN are too excited about the JH-XX and J-50 speaks volumes in my book.

In short what do they know that we don't?

We know much about NGAD. The USAF still didn't decide what NGAD would be at all!

First they wanted big aircraft and now they are talking about small (F-35 size) aircraft. So they still don't know what they want.

We know "very" little about either the NGAD or F/A-XX! Hell, we don't even know what any of the competing designs even look like let alone their actual capabilities.

If, you have knowledge to the contrary. I am sure everyone here would be glad to see your sources.

[eloise]

SAC is close to start production of J-35, they also fly J-50, while Boeing closest to stealth fighter was with X-32 which was demonstrator, but today Boeing have problems with something like T-7 and you compare Boeing to SAC?

While China did fly two tailless stealth fighter designs America still didn't decide what NGAD would look like.

This is why what I wrote about thread is true, America need to act fast and I think merging NGAD with F/A-XX will be most logical in fact making F/A-XX for USN and USAF.

Two engine design similar to J-50 for example, so some derivate of F110-132 with flat nozzle while GE is working on ACE engine in that size.

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where the United States successfully flies two 6th-generation prototypes, and China responds by claiming they had flown a 6th-generation aircraft five years earlier despite offering zero public evidence because, of course, the project was supposedly in deep review. Picture Chinese officials and state media scrambling to downplay the achievement, labeling the U.S. aircraft as mere 'bombers,' insisting that China's lack of transparency is obviously proof of superior progress, or even suggesting that the United States showed weakness by openly showcasing its advancements. Because, naturally, not telling anyone about your achievement is the ultimate flex

[disconnectedradical]

Imagine a hypothetical scenario where the United States successfully flies two 6th-generation prototypes, and China responds by claiming they had flown a 6th-generation aircraft five years earlier despite offering zero public evidence because, of course, the project was supposedly in deep review. Picture Chinese officials and state media scrambling to downplay the achievement, labeling the U.S. aircraft as mere 'bombers,' insisting that China's lack of transparency is obviously proof of superior progress, or even suggesting that the United States showed weakness by openly showcasing its advancements. Because, naturally, not telling anyone about your achievement is the ultimate flex

Here's the thing, NGAD demonstrator absolutely flew and members of Congress have seen it, including Senator Mark Kelly, who said this back in 2021.

https://www.armed-services.senate.gov/i ... -22-21.pdf

Mark Kelly: General, I had the opportunity to go out and see NGAD in April. Very impressive. I think the NGAD efforts will help us outpace our adversaries who are also trying to invest in advanced technologies. I don’t want you to go into anything that could possibly be, you know, we should be doing in another room, so let’s not go there. I am really pleased to see the non-traditional approach being taken with this program, leveraging digital engineering, agile development processes, digital design to make sure we can develop and test and field these aircraft at a faster pace. But I am also interested to find out what your thought is on what impact that this non-traditional approach will have on acquisition and life cycle sustainment costs.

Now, we don't know what it looks like, but at this point the amount of testimonial evidence is overwhelming that such an aircraft did fly, when it comes from multiple individuals including those who are highly vetted, and on different parts of the political spectrum. Why they haven't revealed it publicly, who knows.

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

Because, naturally, not telling anyone about your achievement is the ultimate flex

This is exactly within reason for how the US operates. The F-117 went on combat operations before it was ever publicly acknowledged. Given all the backlash from having an advanced aircraft developed and tested in the public eye (F-35) I don't blame them for keeping it secret.

[milosh]

To be frank even if NGAD fly it doesn't mean much because USAF still cant' decide what it want:
https://news.usni.org/2024/11/07/report ... ce-fighter

What I think happened with Chinese tailless designs is quite simple. Chinese don't like to experiment a lot so they saw what US is doing and decide to make something like NGAD or more precise PCA which is SAC design, but also lets we have backup option which can hold big one in check and that is SAC design.

If Chinese in fact plan to make both, well they took the mantle of airforce leader.

[Corsair1963]

To be frank even if NGAD fly it doesn't mean much because USAF still cant' decide what it want:
https://news.usni.org/2024/11/07/report ... ce-fighter

What I think happened with Chinese tailless designs is quite simple. Chinese don't like to experiment a lot so they saw what US is doing and decide to make something like NGAD or more precise PCA which is SAC design, but also lets we have backup option which can hold big one in check and that is SAC design.

If Chinese in fact plan to make both, well they took the mantle of airforce leader.

It doesn't sound like the USAF and USN are overly concerned about the JH-XX (J-35?) or J-50. So, there is a lot they're not telling us.

[ricnunes]

Because, naturally, not telling anyone about your achievement is the ultimate flex

This is exactly within reason for how the US operates. The F-117 went on combat operations before it was ever publicly acknowledged. Given all the backlash from having an advanced aircraft developed and tested in the public eye (F-35) I don't blame them for keeping it secret.

Exactly spurts!
The F-117 entered in service 1983 - and note entered in actual service and not like a simple demonstrator or prototype like these Chinese aircraft! - and the program was only publicly acknowledged in 1988, saw combat (for the first time) during the United States invasion of Panama in 1989 and the first F-117 seen by the public happened in 1990! That was a 7 years between the F-117 entered in service and the first one seen by the public.

And if I'm not mistaken, it even took much longer for the F-117 prototype - Lockheed Have Blue - to be shown to the public!

And then there are people "surprised" why no NGAD prototype was ever seen in public...

[milosh]

I know I start been boring but guys, what NGAD exactly? Because we do have pre 2024 talk about NGAD and we also have 2024 talk about NGAD:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https% ... 6b8ee41916

Two quite different machines.

Maybe somekind of demonstrator of first proposal did fly but it look like USAF change its mind and want something which is lot cheaper.

[ricnunes]

I know I start been boring but guys, what NGAD exactly? Because we do have pre 2024 talk about NGAD and we also have 2024 talk about NGAD:
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https% ... 6b8ee41916

Two quite different machines.

And you think that anyone here knows the answer??

Maybe somekind of demonstrator of first proposal did fly but it look like USAF change its mind and want something which is lot cheaper.

IMO, that would be a relatively safe assumption (or a good possibility).

But I also don't think that USAF necessarily "changed its mind" or at least no-one here can say that for sure. I think several possibilities are being studied including these two possibilities plus at least in the past a B-21 NGAD and perhaps even other possibilities but either no decision still hasn't been made or it already has been made but then again no-one here knows or will know in a foreseeable future.