General F/A-XX thread

[emobirb]

What has been revealed are not even 5th generation fighter prototypes, let alone 6th generation.
A 5th generation aircraft is not just a shape. It's also 5th generation engines, DAS, stealth, GaN radar and many more.

In this demonstrator, 3 WS-10 engines were probably inserted, because the Chinese don't have enough powerful and modern engines. This makes the whole fuselage filled with 3 air channels and no armament chamber. So it can't carry armaments inside the fuselage. On top of that, it has small vertical control surfaces, so it is very far from the stealth F-35. It has no DAS.

In my opinion it's simply a demonstrator to work on fly-by-wire systems in a flying wing configuration. Nothing more.

That has to be the biggest "cope" I've ever read, lol.

The type of engine used isn't disclosed yet. However the eventual choice will most likely be a modified version of the WS-15. The radar isn't disclosed either, however even the most basic 4th Generation fighters in the PLAAF use GaN AESAs, something not even present on the F-35 yet. The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles. Also the internal weapons bays are literally visible and have even been compared to the J-20S next to it.

Like seriously, did you even try?

[ricnunes]

That has to be the biggest "cope" I've ever read, lol.

The type of engine used isn't disclosed yet. However the eventual choice will most likely be a modified version of the WS-15. The radar isn't disclosed either, however even the most basic 4th Generation fighters in the PLAAF use GaN AESAs, something not even present on the F-35 yet. The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles. Also the internal weapons bays are literally visible and have even been compared to the J-20S next to it.

Like seriously, did you even try?

Nope, this is the biggest "cope" I've ever read, LOL!

You're assuming that the Chinese jumped straight from MSA radars to GaN AESA radars without even passing by GaAs AESA radars which again must be the biggest "cope" that I read here lately

So NO, the most basic 4th Generation fighters in the PLAAF does NOT use GaN AESAs! For example the J-20's radar, the KLJ-5A is NOT GaN but instead GaAs. The same applies to all other Chinese AESA radars. Not even the latest Chinese radar, the KLJ-7A which would be more or less equivalent to the US APG-79(v)4 is confirmed to be GaN let alone all the other AESA radars which are somehow older.

[milosh]

On top of that, it has small vertical control surfaces, so it is very far from the stealth F-35. It has no DAS.

It doesn't have small vertical control surfaces. F-35 has vertical stabilizers. So how you concluded J-36 is very far from the F-35 stealth?

It maybe don't have DAS in fact it is logical not to have one (it wont dogfight nor strike small ground targets) but it do have two big IRST, not one but two. This mean it have much bigger IR sensor compared to DAS so we can talk about IR scanning capability which is on same level as radar and much better against stealth targets then any fighter radar.

Also IRSTs are mounted internally in nose so they impact on RCS is lot smaller then F-35 or J-20 EOTS/IRST

[jointsovietfighter]

On top of that, it has small vertical control surfaces, so it is very far from the stealth F-35. It has no DAS.

It doesn't have small vertical control surfaces. F-35 has vertical stabilizers. So how you concluded J-36 is very far from the F-35 stealth?

It maybe don't have DAS in fact it is logical not to have one (it wont dogfight nor strike small ground targets) but it do have two big IRST, not one but two. This mean it have much bigger IR sensor compared to DAS so we can talk about IR scanning capability which is on same level as radar and much better against stealth targets then any fighter radar.

Also IRSTs are mounted internally in nose so they impact on RCS is lot smaller then F-35 or J-20 EOTS/IRST

Hey! Part of my MiG "design" was to swap out the side looking radars in The Su-57 for the same capability that you described. Damn you, China - stop stealing my ideas!

Not, lol.

[emobirb]

That has to be the biggest "cope" I've ever read, lol.

The type of engine used isn't disclosed yet. However the eventual choice will most likely be a modified version of the WS-15. The radar isn't disclosed either, however even the most basic 4th Generation fighters in the PLAAF use GaN AESAs, something not even present on the F-35 yet. The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles. Also the internal weapons bays are literally visible and have even been compared to the J-20S next to it.

Like seriously, did you even try?

Nope, this is the biggest "cope" I've ever read, LOL!

You're assuming that the Chinese jumped straight from MSA radars to GaN AESA radars without even passing by GaAs AESA radars which again must be the biggest "cope" that I read here lately

So NO, the most basic 4th Generation fighters in the PLAAF does NOT use GaN AESAs! For example the J-20's radar, the KLJ-5A is NOT GaN but instead GaAs. The same applies to all other Chinese AESA radars. Not even the latest Chinese radar, the KLJ-7A which would be more or less equivalent to the US APG-79(v)4 is confirmed to be GaN let alone all the other AESA radars which are somehow older.

J-16s, J-20s, J-11BGM, possibly J-10C too, J-15T and J-35 all have GaN based radars. Same with their Warships btw.

> without even passing by GaAs AESA radars

You're the only one that claims this.

[ricnunes]

J-16s, J-20s, J-11BGM, possibly J-10C too, J-15T and J-35 all have GaN based radars. Same with their Warships btw.

> without even passing by GaAs AESA radars

You're the only one that claims this.

And if you really believe in that then I have a bridge to sell you

[emobirb]

And if you really believe in that then I have a bridge to sell you.

You believe the J-36 is a bomber, despite every single credible source saying that this is a ridiculous assumption. So what you believe and what is actual fact are seemingly two very different things.

[Corsair1963]

You believe the J-36 is a bomber, despite every single credible source saying that this is a ridiculous assumption. So what you believe and what is actual fact are seemingly two very different things.

Sorry, not to jump in but the JH-XX (J-36) is said to replace the Xian JH-7. Which is a strike aircraft much like the A-6 Intruder, F-111 Aardvark and the GR1/4 Tornado. (but stealthy) They may look like a fighter and even sometimes be called fighter-bombers. Yet, in fact they're medium "strike aircraft"(bombers) As their main role is to strike ground or even sea-based targets. They don't have an Air Defense Role other than self protection.

This is not to say he couldn't be used as a missile truck by putting things like enemy bombers and tankers in jeopardy by firing ripples of BVR Missiles at them. Yet, my "guess" is the aforementioned is far more likely.

The J-50 looks more like a true fighter possibly a strike fighter even.

Of course, we all must admit we know very little factually. Just basing our personal opinions on what is available via open sources combined with a great deal of speculation and theory.

[hkultala]

You believe the J-36 is a bomber, despite every single credible source saying that this is a ridiculous assumption. So what you believe and what is actual fact are seemingly two very different things.

Please look at the mirror with these comments.

Every single credible source estimates that it's a bomber.

What clueless fanboys say - that is irrelevant.

[hkultala]

The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles.

This is either total nonsense, or PRC engine tech is really bad.

The F135 engine of F-35B can provide 29000 shaft horsepower (>20 MW) of mechanical power output for the fan. They could theoretically replace the lift-fan with an electric generator and get this amount of electrical power for the non-VTOL models.

So you say your PRC wunderwaffe engine tech is on the level that they cannot produce some tens of kilowatts of power from TWO of their engines and need THIRD engine for that?

Cooling is of course different story though.

In reality: They need third engine because the plane is big and heavy.

[milosh]

The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles.

This is either total nonsense, or PRC engine tech is really bad.

The F135 engine of F-35B can provide 29000 shaft horsepower (>20 MW) of mechanical power output for the fan. They could theoretically replace the lift-fan with an electric generator and get this amount of electrical power for the non-VTOL models.

So you say your PRC wunderwaffe engine tech is on the level that they cannot produce some tens of kilowatts of power from TWO of their engines and need THIRD engine for that?

Cooling is of course different story though.

In reality: They need third engine because the plane is big and heavy.

I do agree third engine is because plane is big and heavy and is also design for supersonic flight in mind.

But I don't think you comparison is okey. If you put F-135-600 and generator instead of lift fan in F-35A you would need to find space for it. Also F-35A would lose some fuel and probable not small amount, same can be said for F-35C too.

Ordinary F135 produce lot less W then F-135-600 provide to lift fan, I couldn't find info for F-135 but for F-135 ECU I google this:

The F135 ECU paired with an upgraded PTMS system can provide 80KW [kilowatts of power] or more of cooling power for the F-35, which will exceed all power and cooling needs for the F-35 through the life of the program,” according to Pratt & Whitney’s Albertelli.

So it wouldn't be strange for Chinese to put third engine also for electricity.

For example we do see it have side aesa plus big nose aesa and very likely some additional aesa (maybe L-band in wings)? Chinese aesa modules are very likely more powerful then Russian ones, and J-20 main radar is big so J-36 main radar isn't smaller either, J-20 have at least 2000 modules, 15W per module it is 30kW just for main radar.

Side aesa are probable 10kW each so we are talking about 50kW just for X-band radars.

[f119doctor]

The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles.

This is either total nonsense, or PRC engine tech is really bad.

The F135 engine of F-35B can provide 29000 shaft horsepower (>20 MW) of mechanical power output for the fan. They could theoretically replace the lift-fan with an electric generator and get this amount of electrical power for the non-VTOL models.

So you say your PRC wunderwaffe engine tech is on the level that they cannot produce some tens of kilowatts of power from TWO of their engines and need THIRD engine for that?

Cooling is of course different story though.

In reality: They need third engine because the plane is big and heavy.

Yes, the F135 could provide that much shaft power to a large generator. But not at the same time as 28K Mil / 43K AB thrust.

When supplying that power to the lift fan, the non-AB thrust from the exhaust drops to 18-19K range. Since you wouldn’t need to bleed fan air to the roll posts, you wouldn’t have something like 21-22K Mil thrust available at low altitude. At high altitude, you might have a third of that power extraction and thrust available.

[emobirb]

You believe the J-36 is a bomber, despite every single credible source saying that this is a ridiculous assumption. So what you believe and what is actual fact are seemingly two very different things.

Please look at the mirror with these comments.

Every single credible source estimates that it's a bomber.

What clueless fanboys say - that is irrelevant.

YouTube videos and sites like "The Aviationist" or "The War Zone" aren't credible, I'm sorry for you.

But when you misidentifying a next generation multirole combat aircraft as a bomber makes you sleep at night, so be it x)

I personally prefer to stick to information closer to the source.

[emobirb]

The 3 engine layout, as it seems, mostly serves to get this big bird going but most importantly to provide enough energy to all the on board systems and sensors. Like the large main radar, the two side arrays, the two side mounted EOTS and probably a lot more bells and whistles.

This is either total nonsense, or PRC engine tech is really bad.

The F135 engine of F-35B can provide 29000 shaft horsepower (>20 MW) of mechanical power output for the fan. They could theoretically replace the lift-fan with an electric generator and get this amount of electrical power for the non-VTOL models.

So you say your PRC wunderwaffe engine tech is on the level that they cannot produce some tens of kilowatts of power from TWO of their engines and need THIRD engine for that?

Cooling is of course different story though.

In reality: They need third engine because the plane is big and heavy.

I do agree third engine is because plane is big and heavy and is also design for supersonic flight in mind.

But I don't think you comparison is okey. If you put F-135-600 and generator instead of lift fan in F-35A you would need to find space for it. Also F-35A would lose some fuel and probable not small amount, same can be said for F-35C too.

Ordinary F135 produce lot less W then F-135-600 provide to lift fan, I couldn't find info for F-135 but for F-135 ECU I google this:

The F135 ECU paired with an upgraded PTMS system can provide 80KW [kilowatts of power] or more of cooling power for the F-35, which will exceed all power and cooling needs for the F-35 through the life of the program,” according to Pratt & Whitney’s Albertelli.

So it wouldn't be strange for Chinese to put third engine also for electricity.

For example we do see it have side aesa plus big nose aesa and very likely some additional aesa (maybe L-band in wings)? Chinese aesa modules are very likely more powerful then Russian ones, and J-20 main radar is big so J-36 main radar isn't smallerse either, J-20 have at least 2000 modules, 15W per module it is 30kW just for main radar.

Side aesa are probable 10kW each so we are talking about 50kW just for X-band radars.

Pretty much. It's stuffed with multiple high powered sensors and other subsystems. That thing will be power hungry and energy management is allegedly one of the biggest factors in development.

[ricnunes]

YouTube videos and sites like "The Aviationist" or "The War Zone" aren't credible, I'm sorry for you.

And you came here just to enlighten us all, poor souls, your highness of the absolute truth and credibility"